Chat Records:
| UserName | Message | Timestamp |
|---|---|---|
| dub | IMD seminar 9/24: Professor STeve Anderson | Wed Sep 24 17:28:34 PDT 2008 |
| dub | "Evocative Knowledge Objects and The War Between Theory and Practice" | Wed Sep 24 17:28:37 PDT 2008 |
| dub | http://interactive.usc.edu/members/sfisher/archives/2008/09/imd_forum_for_9_8.html | Wed Sep 24 17:33:35 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | 3 cheers for Steve! | Wed Sep 24 17:58:31 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | dot | Wed Sep 24 17:58:44 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | WOOO | Wed Sep 24 18:00:38 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | Welcome to the Steve Anderson Experience | Wed Sep 24 18:07:56 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | wait, that's one cheer! | Wed Sep 24 18:08:19 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Woo! | Wed Sep 24 18:08:33 PDT 2008 |
| Elizabeth | hip-hip hurrah! | Wed Sep 24 18:08:43 PDT 2008 |
| dub | http://www.5dconference.com/ | Wed Sep 24 18:10:21 PDT 2008 |
| dub | http://interactive.usc.edu/members/sfisher/archives/2008/09/imd_forum_for_9_8.html | Wed Sep 24 18:12:00 PDT 2008 |
| dub | fuse those talks | Wed Sep 24 18:15:22 PDT 2008 |
| snark | http://www2.parc.com/isl/members/saund/richgold-at-work/home/index.html | Wed Sep 24 18:16:00 PDT 2008 |
| Brandi | Me likey the scrolling presentation :) | Wed Sep 24 18:16:15 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | haha | Wed Sep 24 18:16:30 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | Finally | Wed Sep 24 18:16:34 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | Episteme and techne usually put on opposite ends | Wed Sep 24 18:17:02 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | But is that the [i]right [/i]way? | Wed Sep 24 18:17:35 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Going from learning-about (epistimology) to learning-to-be (ontology)... | Wed Sep 24 18:21:22 PDT 2008 |
| snark | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevolent_Recognition | Wed Sep 24 18:21:32 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Can I just mention how much I love Borges? | Wed Sep 24 18:21:33 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | http://wordle.net/ | Wed Sep 24 18:22:39 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | (Beat me to it.) | Wed Sep 24 18:22:47 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | another good site for visualization hacks: http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/browse/visualizations | Wed Sep 24 18:24:31 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | the power of presentation of information | Wed Sep 24 18:28:34 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | the most important aspect of communication | Wed Sep 24 18:29:06 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | in terms of effectiveness | Wed Sep 24 18:29:12 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | http://labs.digg.com/ another vizualizer of information | Wed Sep 24 18:31:10 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | and ted insisted on multi-directional links - 2 way! | Wed Sep 24 18:31:17 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | Visualizing tags with space http://www.taggalaxy.com/ | Wed Sep 24 18:31:35 PDT 2008 |
| snark | DARPA's mindmapping app: http://cmap.ihmc.us/ | Wed Sep 24 18:32:03 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | cool! I needed a map of my own mind | Wed Sep 24 18:32:46 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | tools for mapping the thought process | Wed Sep 24 18:34:47 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | sit right back and you'll hear a tale | Wed Sep 24 18:35:37 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | type anakin and look at when it became popular | Wed Sep 24 18:35:59 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | It peaked in 1983 and droped in 1999 | Wed Sep 24 18:36:29 PDT 2008 |
| dub | content vs design | Wed Sep 24 18:40:01 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | Serious Games for education http://www.seriousgames.org/archives/000199.html | Wed Sep 24 18:40:02 PDT 2008 |
| dub | word vs. image | Wed Sep 24 18:40:08 PDT 2008 |
| dub | design vs technology | Wed Sep 24 18:40:19 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/movie/terminator/terminator_10.jpg | Wed Sep 24 18:40:39 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | http://interactive.usc.edu/ | Wed Sep 24 18:41:55 PDT 2008 |
| dub | show vectors examples! | Wed Sep 24 18:42:02 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | a higher bar to set - new scholarly vernaculars | Wed Sep 24 18:42:17 PDT 2008 |
| Bill | Dynacular | Wed Sep 24 18:42:34 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | Very strong visualization tool http://www.gapminder.org/video/talks/ted-2007---the-seemingly-impossible-is-possible.html?PHPSESSID=c40gtkcbt9307t8g765t4g23n7 | Wed Sep 24 18:43:49 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | use moving graph to interpret data overtime | Wed Sep 24 18:44:12 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | and customize what the x axis, the y axis, the size of the bubbles, and the color of the bubbles mean | Wed Sep 24 18:44:48 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | gapminder.org let's you try out the graph. | Wed Sep 24 18:47:18 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | Google bought them and the application is now a gadget in google docs! | Wed Sep 24 18:47:52 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | Second Life Island for all those with second life http://slurl.com/secondlife/IML/251/132/52 | Wed Sep 24 18:48:17 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | do it | Wed Sep 24 18:48:40 PDT 2008 |
| dub | the tufte tunnel in SL | Wed Sep 24 18:48:58 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | http://www.nonnydlp.com/ | Wed Sep 24 18:49:17 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | gonegitmo.blogspot.com | Wed Sep 24 18:49:42 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | http://gonegitmo.blogspot.com | Wed Sep 24 18:49:56 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | the future is now | Wed Sep 24 18:50:20 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | internet 2021 | Wed Sep 24 18:50:29 PDT 2008 |
| dub | the bladerunner "esper" machine | Wed Sep 24 18:50:30 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | track 45 left | Wed Sep 24 18:51:00 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | poloroid is the future | Wed Sep 24 18:51:21 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | the future was 1982 | Wed Sep 24 18:51:48 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | blade runner = INVEST IN NEON now | Wed Sep 24 18:51:50 PDT 2008 |
| Brandi | an advanced poloroid! He didn't have to shake it or anything | Wed Sep 24 18:52:07 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | god i hate that movie... | Wed Sep 24 18:52:24 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Photosynth as "collective memory" | Wed Sep 24 18:52:41 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | photosynth is out | Wed Sep 24 18:52:59 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | http://photosynth.net/ you can upload photos and they are assembled in 3d. They always go online however but still. | Wed Sep 24 18:53:43 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | i think they earned it | Wed Sep 24 18:54:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | doesn't work as well as the demo | Wed Sep 24 18:54:23 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | unless you take thousand of pictures | Wed Sep 24 18:54:33 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Wait, Microsoft has an "Earth" application? | Wed Sep 24 18:55:10 PDT 2008 |
| Cynthia | You could say that about a lot of things... doesn't work well unless you have (a ton of people) working on it... >_> | Wed Sep 24 18:55:20 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | collective memory, capturing history | Wed Sep 24 18:55:33 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | visualizing history and the current moment on the same picture plane... | Wed Sep 24 18:56:12 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | that's gapminder. | Wed Sep 24 18:57:39 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | it's not a picture but still | Wed Sep 24 18:57:56 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Wow, that's a pretty liberal interpretation of "wiki". | Wed Sep 24 18:57:59 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | desires that swirl around reenactment | Wed Sep 24 18:59:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | JFK reloaded tag line: "what if YOU were the one that killed the president?" | Wed Sep 24 19:00:01 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | sadly this really reminds me of GTA... | Wed Sep 24 19:00:23 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | mike - what song is playing? | Wed Sep 24 19:01:15 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | hurray for physics | Wed Sep 24 19:01:44 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | Could something like this better teach history then textbooks? | Wed Sep 24 19:03:46 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | that's the question | Wed Sep 24 19:04:13 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Or in conjunction with textbooks... | Wed Sep 24 19:04:22 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | I just learned he was assasinated right now | Wed Sep 24 19:04:22 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | maybe it could provide perspective to accompany information | Wed Sep 24 19:04:23 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | jk lolz | Wed Sep 24 19:04:36 PDT 2008 |
| Cynthia | Textbooks are written by the winners? | Wed Sep 24 19:04:48 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Is software? | Wed Sep 24 19:04:59 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | i think the song may have been from the cartoon deathclock... ? | Wed Sep 24 19:05:13 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | or metalocalyps | Wed Sep 24 19:05:42 PDT 2008 |
| Cynthia | Software is a tool... I don't think you could ever accurately call a history book a "tool". | Wed Sep 24 19:05:42 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | w/e | Wed Sep 24 19:05:44 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | sam look across the room! | Wed Sep 24 19:05:44 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | textbooks are written by publishers who pull the history from the winners - but that doesn't mean you can use multiple sources of information to create a more accurate representation of historical events | Wed Sep 24 19:05:56 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | might never be perfect but it will be close(r) | Wed Sep 24 19:06:05 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | (mike) i want to say behemoth, but i am not sure | Wed Sep 24 19:06:09 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | definitely mid-90s thrash | Wed Sep 24 19:06:33 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | hybrind spaces that don't attempt to embed us | Wed Sep 24 19:06:43 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | I'm not really an expert on this style to be frank | Wed Sep 24 19:06:56 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | it's not dethklok, since metalocalypse came out just last year | Wed Sep 24 19:07:18 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | and that video is probably 2 or 3 years old | Wed Sep 24 19:07:27 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | actually, add years to both of those estimates :) | Wed Sep 24 19:08:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | you need to use the im-g network not usc wireless and then go to http://chat.imd.anim.usc.edu/chat/backchannel.php | Wed Sep 24 19:08:54 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | http://interactive.usc.edu | Wed Sep 24 19:09:27 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | vote with your virtual feet | Wed Sep 24 19:09:36 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | sorry about the chat. i needed to show someon how to log in to the chat | Wed Sep 24 19:09:49 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Np. | Wed Sep 24 19:10:01 PDT 2008 |
| dub | link for that last SL example? | Wed Sep 24 19:10:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | What's the im-g password? | Wed Sep 24 19:10:30 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | This room as a remarkable knowledge object. | Wed Sep 24 19:10:33 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | can we say it on this? | Wed Sep 24 19:11:00 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | is it secret, is it safe?/ | Wed Sep 24 19:11:12 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | it's not like this anymore... it has a giant flamingo | Wed Sep 24 19:11:12 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | from the pixel up | Wed Sep 24 19:11:31 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | the flamingo! | Wed Sep 24 19:12:06 PDT 2008 |
| Brandi | lol. Night trap... | Wed Sep 24 19:12:10 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | that course sounds like fun | Wed Sep 24 19:12:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | it is | Wed Sep 24 19:12:29 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | to bad the building tools arent the best | Wed Sep 24 19:12:45 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | http://interactive.usc.edu/courses/2008_fall/ctin-482-designing_.php | Wed Sep 24 19:12:58 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | http://imlslislanddesign.blogspot.com/ | Wed Sep 24 19:13:04 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | sam, ask someon for the password. it's saved in my computer and i don't remember it | Wed Sep 24 19:13:11 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | oh actually maybe i do | Wed Sep 24 19:13:18 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | http://web.media.mit.edu/~dharry/infospaces/full_description.html | Wed Sep 24 19:14:07 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | http://web.media.mit.edu/~dharry/infospaces/ | Wed Sep 24 19:14:48 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | it is true. | Wed Sep 24 19:15:07 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | http://vectors.usc.edu/index.php?page=2|1 | Wed Sep 24 19:17:34 PDT 2008 |
| dub | JSB Article on WOW learning: http://www.johnseelybrown.com/playimagination.pdf | Wed Sep 24 19:18:29 PDT 2008 |
| dub | http://vectors.usc.edu/index.php?page=2|1 | Wed Sep 24 19:18:46 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | Yes! I'm in. thanks eduard. hello world | Wed Sep 24 19:20:34 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | lol | Wed Sep 24 19:20:42 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | edOuard | Wed Sep 24 19:20:51 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Critical Commons - advocacy for Fair Use, especially in an academic setting. | Wed Sep 24 19:22:17 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | http://www.criticalcommons.org | Wed Sep 24 19:23:18 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | I guess it's not loading | Wed Sep 24 19:23:35 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | http://erikloyer.com/clients/criticalcommons/ | Wed Sep 24 19:23:54 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | Can technology bring objectiveness to teaching history? | Wed Sep 24 19:25:33 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | heck no | Wed Sep 24 19:25:45 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | I had never heard of Critical Commons before, but I love it. | Wed Sep 24 19:26:22 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | sorry- there is a danger of closer proximity to authentic history | Wed Sep 24 19:26:27 PDT 2008 |
| nahil | this kind of wiki/collective consiousness technology certianly brings more voices to the table | Wed Sep 24 19:26:31 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | whatever authentic might mean | Wed Sep 24 19:26:35 PDT 2008 |
| nahil | more voices can neutralize biases | Wed Sep 24 19:27:19 PDT 2008 |
| dub | naimark plugs movie tagger | Wed Sep 24 19:27:20 PDT 2008 |
| dub | http://stevens.usc.edu/innovation_at_usc_search_4003.php | Wed Sep 24 19:28:00 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | purpose, purpose, purspose, terror, terror, terror... | Wed Sep 24 19:28:00 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Every movie tagged in 2-3 months... wow. That's an impressive projection. | Wed Sep 24 19:28:31 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | It would be interesting to add a layer to that tag DB that maps the emotional content shot by shot | Wed Sep 24 19:29:45 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | if I could watch movies and tag them at the same time | Wed Sep 24 19:30:00 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | spore got more species made in-game than are known on earth... | Wed Sep 24 19:30:02 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | is movie tagger automatic? i didnt hear | Wed Sep 24 19:30:09 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | IE xbox tag for netflix | Wed Sep 24 19:30:11 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | in less than a month | Wed Sep 24 19:30:13 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | October 27th Fair Use Day | Wed Sep 24 19:30:14 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | that's not true | Wed Sep 24 19:30:18 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | every day is fair use day! | Wed Sep 24 19:30:24 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | with bittorrent | Wed Sep 24 19:30:35 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | oh come on, with CULTURE | Wed Sep 24 19:30:46 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | there's around 25 millions species of insect on earth, that story was fake | Wed Sep 24 19:30:50 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | or rather erroneous | Wed Sep 24 19:31:01 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | really? b/c it was one of will wright's selling points... | Wed Sep 24 19:31:20 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | Communists would love bittorrent | Wed Sep 24 19:31:24 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | lol | Wed Sep 24 19:31:30 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | I doubt it was spreaded by WW | Wed Sep 24 19:31:50 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | and raph koster | Wed Sep 24 19:31:54 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | It seems that knowledge objects and/or tools for thinking as thy stand to day, have a heavy 'intent' attached to them | Wed Sep 24 19:31:54 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | i was at comicon. he said it ed. | Wed Sep 24 19:32:06 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yes | Wed Sep 24 19:32:06 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | because they're not created as a result of culture, but out of an intent to create a knowledge object | Wed Sep 24 19:32:34 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | Thet exist to serve a 'specific' pre-imagined purpose or to solve a problem | Wed Sep 24 19:32:34 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | also | Wed Sep 24 19:32:42 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | because people as a general rule aren't very articulate when it comes to knowledge objects - as we are more comfortable assimilating information through them they may become less pointed | Wed Sep 24 19:33:27 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | What if these tools could accommodate a sense/funtctionality of serdipitous discovery or accident? | Wed Sep 24 19:33:36 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | I think that's where evocative knowledge objects start to overlap with interactive spaces | Wed Sep 24 19:34:15 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | (in a good way) | Wed Sep 24 19:34:22 PDT 2008 |
| dub | why matter matters | Wed Sep 24 19:34:25 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | Games that afford this kind of 'sand box' approach to knowledge are on to something | Wed Sep 24 19:34:37 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | bam | Wed Sep 24 19:34:44 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | emergence as learning/creation | Wed Sep 24 19:34:46 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | you made my point for me, and saved me the typing | Wed Sep 24 19:35:00 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | :) | Wed Sep 24 19:35:14 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Theory and practice is a false binary... | Wed Sep 24 19:36:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | LittleBig planet could make a great learning environment, seeing how amazing that sony conference was. That's for next semester's CTIN 482 | Wed Sep 24 19:36:50 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | ...so let's all do both instead of locking ourselves in a room with no windows | Wed Sep 24 19:36:50 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | lol | Wed Sep 24 19:37:10 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | but can little big planet give a person as much knowlage as a book? | Wed Sep 24 19:37:45 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Depends on the book. | Wed Sep 24 19:37:56 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | and the person | Wed Sep 24 19:38:03 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | that's a misnomer - why just little big planet? books have been around for centuries | Wed Sep 24 19:38:10 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | well a picture's supposed to be worth a thousand words... | Wed Sep 24 19:38:11 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | I don't think as much in one level but you can keep creating levels | Wed Sep 24 19:38:21 PDT 2008 |
| dub | aggree on little big planet | Wed Sep 24 19:38:29 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | lol | Wed Sep 24 19:38:31 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | there is nothing to say that a single level of little big planet can't teach us more than Harry Potter book 2 | Wed Sep 24 19:38:45 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | or book 5 | Wed Sep 24 19:38:56 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | just used it since it was mentioned, but just refering to sandbox games in general | Wed Sep 24 19:38:56 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | as long as we're talking about pop | Wed Sep 24 19:39:02 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | There's value in what James Paul Gee labeled as 'situated learning' | Wed Sep 24 19:39:16 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | Simulation has yet to deliver on the promise mirroring and reflecting learning systems | Wed Sep 24 19:39:52 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yeah - there's nothing to say that a strong example of distilled learning in the form of a sandbox game can't teach just as much or more than a similar written work | Wed Sep 24 19:40:04 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | however, there's also nothing that suggests it can either (so let's not rule it out) | Wed Sep 24 19:40:24 PDT 2008 |
| Daniel Ponce | can this type of interactive learning be useful for all cultures or certain cultures? | Wed Sep 24 19:40:44 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | well it's active learning, not passive learning as a book might provide | Wed Sep 24 19:40:52 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | or, rather, there are things that [i]suggest[/i] that it can, but nothing that proves it definitively | Wed Sep 24 19:40:57 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | except theory and the application of prinicples from other forms of experiential learning | Wed Sep 24 19:41:20 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | I think it depends on what that cuture considers as a knowledge model | Wed Sep 24 19:41:41 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/2680981525_d9f647a0aa.jpg?v=0 | Wed Sep 24 19:41:56 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | I think it comes down to a given culture's media literacy | Wed Sep 24 19:42:03 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | and what forms of media the culture is comfortable consuming | Wed Sep 24 19:42:16 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | but learning took place before media existed | Wed Sep 24 19:42:26 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | Cultures that efectively store and process culture oraly would find it jarring to deal with a different representation of it | Wed Sep 24 19:42:33 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | what's to say that direct communication isn't a form of media? | Wed Sep 24 19:42:36 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yeah | Wed Sep 24 19:43:06 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | do you mean individual to individual communication? | Wed Sep 24 19:43:08 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | because learning takes place in situations where that does not occur | Wed Sep 24 19:43:27 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | that's true, but given the two situations, learning takes (or can take) place in both | Wed Sep 24 19:43:43 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | which means its not dependent on the media? | Wed Sep 24 19:44:03 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | learning itself isn't, but the form that the media takes can have an effect on the learning experience based on the media literacy of the subject | Wed Sep 24 19:44:37 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | situated in this context means a dialog that engages a learner with the object of study | Wed Sep 24 19:44:57 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | do you mean in the lessons learned, or in the process by which that information is learned? | Wed Sep 24 19:45:12 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | the kind of feedback you get from toying with concepts in context | Wed Sep 24 19:45:39 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | can be context | Wed Sep 24 19:45:47 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | @mike, probably a combination of the two, right? | Wed Sep 24 19:46:17 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | because the lesson learned can be manipulated by the ability of the subject to absorb the information | Wed Sep 24 19:46:38 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | i would agree that the process is dependent entirely / largely on the medium | Wed Sep 24 19:47:28 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | and the process is different depending on how acclimated the subject is with the form of media | Wed Sep 24 19:47:31 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | but that the lesson can be learned in a number of ways | Wed Sep 24 19:47:38 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yeah, I thing that's definitely true | Wed Sep 24 19:47:47 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | but we weren't debating that right? | Wed Sep 24 19:47:56 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | i was just taking issue with Mcluhan | Wed Sep 24 19:48:17 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | oh, yeah for sure | Wed Sep 24 19:48:22 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | i don't necessarily see medium as equal to message | Wed Sep 24 19:48:30 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | certainly not. | Wed Sep 24 19:48:37 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | algorithmic pleasure | Wed Sep 24 19:48:42 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | that's far to short-sighted | Wed Sep 24 19:48:43 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | it would be a mistake to completely separate the two, though | Wed Sep 24 19:48:50 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | How does including other voices in the knowledge dialog change the expert vs layperson rift? | Wed Sep 24 19:49:03 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | separate is the wrong word - it would be a mistake to not consider medium when considering communication | Wed Sep 24 19:49:14 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | well, true, in the same manner that equating them is | Wed Sep 24 19:49:23 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | it would, but so would privledging medium OVER message | Wed Sep 24 19:50:01 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | neither can CS | Wed Sep 24 19:50:10 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | I think that we're kind of jumping around something else here | Wed Sep 24 19:50:17 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | Did you say "Chinese encyclopedia" and if so, could you elaborate (or input a link?) | Wed Sep 24 19:50:28 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | oh? | Wed Sep 24 19:50:29 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | The Borges quote mentioned earlier. | Wed Sep 24 19:50:43 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | because in some cases the medium completely camouflages the message | Wed Sep 24 19:50:43 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | or can | Wed Sep 24 19:50:45 PDT 2008 |
| pweil | ah, the Borges slide. | Wed Sep 24 19:50:45 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | so in that case, the message remains, but the medium prohibits communication of the message | Wed Sep 24 19:51:07 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | well, so can the interpretation of the message | Wed Sep 24 19:51:08 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | "I like the systems and when the systems go awry." | Wed Sep 24 19:51:11 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | but tht is reallu just splittig hairs | Wed Sep 24 19:51:16 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | indeed, and the medium can also have an effect on that interpretation | Wed Sep 24 19:51:21 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | we are almost debating intent versus execution | Wed Sep 24 19:51:24 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yeah we're dangerously close | Wed Sep 24 19:51:32 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | shall we go down that road? | Wed Sep 24 19:51:44 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | I'm not sure that's a good idea | Wed Sep 24 19:51:47 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | well, we shall have it later, then | Wed Sep 24 19:51:59 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | What I was goin for with my question was: since these tolls create instant experts what future does practice have? | Wed Sep 24 19:52:08 PDT 2008 |
| AlaDiab | tools | Wed Sep 24 19:52:30 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | speak up! | Wed Sep 24 19:52:40 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | don't forget research (theory) | Wed Sep 24 19:52:49 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | and should we differentiate practice from experimentation? | Wed Sep 24 19:53:25 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | its just a linguistic trick, but... | Wed Sep 24 19:53:35 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | also, research is based on research AND practice (and experimentation) | Wed Sep 24 19:53:41 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | yes, the scientific method necessitates both | Wed Sep 24 19:54:02 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | so in that sense, neither will ever die (or "win out") | Wed Sep 24 19:54:24 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | yep | Wed Sep 24 19:54:47 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | which simply reduces it to a matter of preference | Wed Sep 24 19:55:05 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | or language | Wed Sep 24 19:55:11 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Epistimology is political. Changing the way you think about things is a political action. | Wed Sep 24 19:55:11 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | thereby rendering either position inarguable | Wed Sep 24 19:55:24 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | highfive | Wed Sep 24 19:55:33 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | knowledge is power | Wed Sep 24 19:55:36 PDT 2008 |
| Bill | Is it political epistimology the same as framing a debate to your advantage? | Wed Sep 24 19:56:31 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | I think it's more about understanding the system, rather than simply holding a position about an issue. | Wed Sep 24 19:57:19 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | @rodriigo i'd disagree. You can find knowledge on the web | Wed Sep 24 19:57:53 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | Many people consider an issue as a binary choice, rather than a complex system. | Wed Sep 24 19:58:08 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | and not just wikipedia. You can find all the info you need to build a website as big as digg.com on their tech blog | Wed Sep 24 19:58:27 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | and? your point? | Wed Sep 24 19:58:42 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | Evocative knowledge systems | Wed Sep 24 19:58:48 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | knowledge is not power anymore | Wed Sep 24 19:58:51 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | oh | Wed Sep 24 19:58:57 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | ideas and thinking is | Wed Sep 24 19:59:07 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | when judgement day comes, then you'll see. | Wed Sep 24 19:59:17 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | lol | Wed Sep 24 19:59:23 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | second life is like a hammer, it;s perfect if every problem you have is a nail | Wed Sep 24 19:59:30 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | are you implying that someone who is uninformed is as effective in a given situation as someone who is highly knowledgable? | Wed Sep 24 19:59:31 PDT 2008 |
| Michael | I'm going to try it tonight | Wed Sep 24 19:59:35 PDT 2008 |
| Rodriigo | i suppose but how can one think elloquently w/o knowledge | Wed Sep 24 19:59:37 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | @Mike Doesn't that describe just about every tool? | Wed Sep 24 20:00:10 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | well, exactly | Wed Sep 24 20:00:24 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | except the internet! | Wed Sep 24 20:00:26 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | it all comes down to application | Wed Sep 24 20:00:36 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | no because the unknowledgeable one will have to learn the knowledge and that will take a lot of time to be in his system and if time is important (it always is) then he won't be as efficient | Wed Sep 24 20:00:52 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | @Ed I don't understand. Are you referring to CENTRALIZED knowledge specifically, or knowledge in general? | Wed Sep 24 20:01:08 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | doesn't it matter how you view/ approach that tool? | Wed Sep 24 20:01:21 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | You still can't build Digg if you don't have that knowledge. | Wed Sep 24 20:01:24 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | *to be in his system as well as the knowledgable person | Wed Sep 24 20:01:26 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | It's just that the knowledge is more accessible now. | Wed Sep 24 20:01:33 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | It's still powerful. | Wed Sep 24 20:01:37 PDT 2008 |
| ndef | It's just not expensive. | Wed Sep 24 20:01:41 PDT 2008 |
| pvd | or elusive | Wed Sep 24 20:01:48 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | @v yes, it does, but i can still build things with just a hammer | Wed Sep 24 20:01:49 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | it all comes down to how i use it | Wed Sep 24 20:01:56 PDT 2008 |
| Seminar_9/24 | or how i approach the problem | Wed Sep 24 20:02:29 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | si j'avais un marteau, je taperai la nuit, je taperai le jour... french song | Wed Sep 24 20:02:36 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | objects / texts to think with - cronenberg | Wed Sep 24 20:02:54 PDT 2008 |
| Veronica | to also feel with | Wed Sep 24 20:03:06 PDT 2008 |
| Bill | Cronenberg's practice drives Anderson's theory. | Wed Sep 24 20:03:21 PDT 2008 |
| Ed.lorenceau | bye bye http://gaygamer.net/images/lbp_ps3_sackboy_dragon.jpg | Wed Sep 24 20:04:12 PDT 2008 |