You are now in chat room “imd.”
peggyweil has entered the chat room.
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Hokyman164 has entered the chat room.
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okamilink (6:09:10 PM): let's clear this up right now -- second person isn't a cheap knockoff of second life, right?
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Envarh (6:09:44 PM): I demand plural conjugations as well!
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justinallynhall (6:10:06 PM): chackbannel?
justinallynhall (6:10:53 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Mechner
Hokyman164 (6:10:58 PM): let's hear it for killing fathers!
justinallynhall (6:10:58 PM): I played Karateka on the Apple ][
justinallynhall (6:11:01 PM): (beats chest)
okamilink (6:11:53 PM): raise your hand if you were alive in the 70's!
Hokyman164 (6:12:08 PM): 79!
OlduserNewhandle (6:12:22 PM): <raises hadn>
OlduserNewhandle (6:12:25 PM): hand even
justinallynhall (6:12:45 PM): he's talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_Cave_Adventure
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justinallynhall (6:13:24 PM): he's showing this video: http://www.cinemarcade.com/arcade84.html
justinallynhall (6:14:05 PM): Alan Kay + Atari = Unlimited Budget
justinallynhall (6:14:11 PM): until Scott Fisher and Michael Naimark got there
michaelnaimark (6:14:12 PM): alan kay: "apparently (not functionally)unlimited" budget
justinallynhall (6:14:14 PM): Peggy were you there?
justinallynhall (6:14:35 PM): Noah WF is still active in the interactive fiction community
BableBlast (6:14:40 PM): realistic or fully evocative graphics... mission accomplished?
justinallynhall (6:14:51 PM): "hobbyist literary community"
okamilink (6:15:07 PM): hey many people know of some good ones: good IF authoring programs? for text adventures and things.
Hokyman164 (6:15:27 PM): man I feel way young now!
Hokyman164 (6:15:52 PM): usually I feel old because I'm around people who's first system was playstation :P
justinallynhall (6:16:05 PM): by SCA he's referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachronism
justinallynhall (6:16:41 PM): GURPS is fascinating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurps
justinallynhall (6:16:49 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Stone
justinallynhall (6:17:05 PM): The War of Desire and Technology at the Close of the Mechanical Age
justinallynhall (6:17:11 PM): "she was very wrong"
justinallynhall (6:17:11 PM): hahahahaha
Hokyman164 (6:17:14 PM): she work for bush?
justinallynhall (6:17:19 PM): against him
justinallynhall (6:18:40 PM): the most fascinating idea I found so far in Second Person: Engagist versus Escapist media, from an essay by John Tynes
justinallynhall (6:19:23 PM): he cites Waco Resurrection as an example of Engagist media
Envarh (6:19:41 PM): just a cute digression RE: p&p RPGS: http://xkcd.com/c244.html
okamilink (6:20:59 PM): computers = good at math
Hokyman164 (6:21:15 PM): computer == abstraction
Hokyman164 (6:21:20 PM): world's greatest dungeon master!
okamilink (6:21:25 PM): taking the complexity out of player's hands
BableBlast (6:22:17 PM): but the analogy between DM and computer may be a tough one... isn't the DM's main job to create a logical BUT SURPRISING solution to problems?
okamilink (6:22:27 PM): a good DM, yeah
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okamilink (6:22:43 PM): which is why a lot of people still play D&D with other humans
imdbot (6:23:45 PM): welcome Scott Fisher
justinallynhall (6:24:33 PM): groups like who?
dread33sf (6:24:33 PM): If you haven't already, check out Noah's blog Grand Text Auto: http://grandtextauto.gatech.edu/
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justinallynhall (6:27:16 PM): Jordan Mekner
justinallynhall (6:27:21 PM): can someone invite kinojabber?
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okamilink (6:28:16 PM): kinojabber not logged in?
BableBlast (6:28:18 PM): i can't see her for some reason
dread33sf (6:29:16 PM): AIM says I have blocked here
dread33sf (6:29:20 PM): her
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kinojabber (6:30:14 PM): thanks -- I'm in!
justinallynhall (6:30:41 PM): Jordan Mechner's chapter on Prince of Persia in Second Person was a writer's post-mortem
justinallynhall (6:30:51 PM): about choices for game story and allowable actions
justinallynhall (6:30:55 PM): how to work dialog in with gameplay
okamilink (6:31:43 PM): interesting. PoP did a pretty good job of having dialogue happen over gameplay instead of breaking the gameplay constantly.
jericho1ne (6:32:40 PM): the GBA port of Sands of Time is superb
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darthjulian (6:34:36 PM): will a movie called prince of persia get made on the cusp of war with, like..persia?
justinallynhall (6:34:46 PM): prince of sparta
darthjulian (6:34:55 PM): that's another one
darthjulian (6:35:00 PM): or, maybe it will get made
peggyweil (6:35:05 PM): Prince of Bagdad
peggyweil (6:35:19 PM): Wait that was Thief...
justinallynhall (6:35:32 PM): That was the Mother of all...
Aaron4281 (6:35:33 PM): they can make the evil villain look just like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
peggyweil (6:36:10 PM): kill everybody you meet
justinallynhall (6:36:17 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_of_Bagdad_%281940_film%29
BableBlast (6:36:18 PM): that's the video game way
BableBlast (6:36:45 PM): there's usually nothing else to do with 'em... so they might as well die
Aaron4281 (6:36:50 PM): that has a nice ring to it... "the video game way"
Hokyman164 (6:37:11 PM): I had a hard time piecing together the stuff that was story-related in the trailer with the gameplay footage.
Hokyman164 (6:37:36 PM): I was in story, then I was in gameplay going "uh, why's he climbing on walls and stuff", and then back to story again.
okamilink (6:37:54 PM): lots of action movies are like that, why is this different?
BableBlast (6:38:00 PM): it was alot like the relation of action scenes to plot-development in an adventure/action movie
Hokyman164 (6:38:11 PM): because the action is motivated by events in the storyline of a film.
BableBlast (6:38:32 PM): well, that's true... but in a trailer?
BableBlast (6:38:43 PM): watch the spider-man 3 trailer again
BableBlast (6:38:52 PM): and pretend you don't already know the plot
okamilink (6:38:56 PM): watch any action movie trailer again. they don't make sense, the trailer itself doesn't have a story.
darthjulian (6:38:59 PM): i think the trailer could be the movie..you know..a short or something? maybe 12 minutes?
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kinojabber (6:39:11 PM): I was connected to the "idea" of killing a father, more than the actual character. It meant something to me
Aaron4281 (6:39:44 PM): thats what they are doing for some other game right now, Julian
Aaron4281 (6:39:52 PM): i forget which one... someone here probably knows
Hokyman164 (6:39:57 PM): The stuff that happens in an action movie usually has some form of cohesion between action and story (no matter how thin the story may be.. Not to say Sands of Time is a thin story. it was excellent)
Envarh (6:40:14 PM): here is some pure action
Envarh (6:40:19 PM): see if you can find the story in it
Envarh (6:40:20 PM): http://youtube.com/watch?v=aIUbvoKho9A
BableBlast (6:40:54 PM): I think we're reacting to the difference between cut-scene and gameplay as well, as josh is saying
okamilink (6:42:10 PM): Tracy, would you have been into the idea of killing a father if he was portrayed as a good guy or a saint or something? is it completely removed from the character?
justinallynhall (6:42:20 PM): envarh - that is a great clip - how did you find it? it's been viewed 20 times
Envarh (6:42:31 PM): my roommate made it
justinallynhall (6:42:39 PM): nice
Hokyman164 (6:42:51 PM): this begs the question
Hokyman164 (6:42:58 PM): why is it game premises are still this simple?
Hokyman164 (6:43:12 PM): not saying I can do better or nothing, just something to think about.
okamilink (6:43:14 PM): simple?
Hokyman164 (6:43:25 PM): yes, "going from point A to point B"
Hokyman164 (6:43:53 PM): as a premise, you gotta admit that won't sell a movie script :P
kinojabber (6:44:22 PM): I didn't mean I was happy about it -- I liked the moment because I actually stopped fighting for a moment and realized what I was doing.
kinojabber (6:44:29 PM): Then I fought, again, but I had a great "beat" in the middle of play. I was into that emotional turning point.
Envarh (6:46:08 PM): Hokeyman: "going from point A to point B" is basically the Odyssey. I think there may be a few movies with that structure
okamilink (6:46:10 PM): I wasn't implying you were happy about doing it, but rather asking if it was the novelty of killing a father rather than the execution of killing a father that captured you.
kinojabber (6:46:27 PM): Yes, that's right
okamilink (6:46:35 PM): Okay
justinallynhall (6:46:55 PM): talking about the difference between characters and emotional moments shared through gameplay versus cutscenes
justinallynhall (6:47:03 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Express
Hokyman164 (6:47:07 PM): envarh: but usually something funny happens on the way to the forum!
okamilink (6:48:35 PM): maybe because the gameplay is the interesting part, the narrative just contextualizes it, Josh
Hokyman164 (6:48:55 PM): I just wonder if it's possible to have both being interesting.
Hokyman164 (6:49:11 PM): playing is narrative, for instance
Hokyman164 (6:49:37 PM): mechner is really good with this btw. especially in the first prince of persia
justinallynhall (6:49:59 PM): I made a cutscene for my web based game (for my thesis)
justinallynhall (6:50:01 PM): it was fun to do
justinallynhall (6:50:10 PM): but perhaps a bit of a waste of time?
justinallynhall (6:50:11 PM): heh
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Hokyman164 (6:50:32 PM): justin: depends on the game. yours was more an intro to a game in which the gameplay is the story
BableBlast (6:50:51 PM): i didn't think the PMOG trailer was a waste
Hokyman164 (6:51:01 PM): yaya me neither
BableBlast (6:51:01 PM): it was hilariously all-encompassing
justinallynhall (6:51:38 PM): cheers! that's nice to hear
BableBlast (6:51:55 PM): and it made me feel that I was a monkey about to touch the monolith. definitely keep it
justinallynhall (6:51:58 PM): Jordan also directed a documentary about stolen land and dashed neighborhood hopes in Los Angeles: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383261/
okamilink (6:52:17 PM): where is this trailer?
Hokyman164 (6:52:50 PM): justin hall: biggest kiss-ass ever!
Hokyman164 (6:52:56 PM): j/k :P
jericho1ne (6:54:06 PM): wow, i just bought that movie from bullfrog films
jericho1ne (6:54:14 PM): i thought it was some _other_ jordan mechner :-)
Hokyman164 (6:54:35 PM): yaya he's a filmmaker. :-) I want to see that. let me know how it is!
jericho1ne (6:54:56 PM): http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/catalog/chavez.html
Hokyman164 (6:56:00 PM): is this a potential thesis project for next year?
justinallynhall (6:56:55 PM): What is this gentleman's name?
marientina (6:57:01 PM): WE CAN HEAR YOU!
justinallynhall (6:58:00 PM): Mark Marino - http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~mcmarino/
kinojabber (6:58:13 PM): Mark Marino
BableBlast (6:58:20 PM): gracias
kinojabber (6:58:22 PM): Mariano - sorry
BableBlast (6:58:53 PM): mariano? his computer says marino....
justinallynhall (6:58:55 PM): He just recommended this piece: http://www.eastgate.com/catalog/Afternoon.html
kinojabber (6:58:55 PM): thx
kinojabber (6:59:03 PM): i'm a horrible speller
okamilink (6:59:05 PM): mike - isn't the collaborative text-based internet he is talking about really just wikipedia?
Hokyman164 (6:59:52 PM): you mean
Hokyman164 (6:59:55 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext
justinallynhall (7:00:56 PM): Grand Theft Auto audio mod: http://www.bunkmag.com/vice/
BableBlast (7:01:14 PM): seems like they're retasking the satire already in the radio monologues
justinallynhall (7:01:47 PM): 30 person team for design/art for PoP: SoT
Hokyman164 (7:01:51 PM): wow. that's smaller than i expected
BableBlast (7:02:18 PM): WHAAT???
BableBlast (7:02:31 PM): he wrote the first, and the best, so no one else need apply?
justinallynhall (7:03:20 PM): hypertext = super high literature he says
BableBlast (7:03:48 PM): too much self-effacing... hurting... me....
okamilink (7:03:48 PM): thought frames were dead by now!
justinallynhall (7:04:21 PM): theme: mistakes, regret, amendments
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Hokyman164 (7:05:09 PM): my problem with hypertext in the middle of a story.... too distracting. :/
Envarh (7:05:54 PM): oh man, digging the visual effects on the text, very readable
BableBlast (7:06:31 PM): Time travel for those of you at home: http://www.bunkmag.com/time/
peggyweil (7:06:36 PM): hitchhiker's guide qualifies as literary
BableBlast (7:06:54 PM): yeah, i think it should
BableBlast (7:07:34 PM): he's not a literary structure guy, but he competes with the best for ideas
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Hokyman164 (7:08:55 PM): is that vrml I see?
BableBlast (7:10:18 PM): This is a better application of hypertext writing than most I've seen. I'm glad we are not boring like termites into some character's emotional well-being, looking at the various hopeless outcomes of his/her attempt to buy a soda.
Hokyman164 (7:10:26 PM): people just want to know if tickie will have sex with them
Hokyman164 (7:10:34 PM): why am I not shocked?
BableBlast (7:10:50 PM): when confronted with something new, most people will try to have sex with it
Hokyman164 (7:11:07 PM): does that include farm ani.... okay nevermind
BableBlast (7:11:09 PM): that's NOT the video game way
Envarh (7:11:23 PM): Ticky just sent us to schoooooool
BableBlast (7:12:42 PM): Anyone have a link to Ticky?
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Hokyman164 (7:13:16 PM): wwwbunkmag.com/time/frametime4.html
Hokyman164 (7:13:32 PM): that's what I see in the url bar on the projector
justinallynhall (7:14:22 PM): josh you subvocalized?
Hokyman164 (7:14:40 PM): I said "what would the reader get from that though?"
justinallynhall (7:16:05 PM): a map :D
okamilink (7:16:07 PM): let's ask Ticky why he exists.
Hokyman164 (7:16:42 PM): Is there a cohesive whole to this project?
okamilink (7:17:17 PM): Me: Why do you exist? Ticky: Good metaphysical question.
okamilink (7:17:26 PM): That is highly unsatisfying.
Hokyman164 (7:17:31 PM): It seems like things that're kinda disparate (probably spelled incorrectly), but not connected except by the theme.
peggyweil (7:18:00 PM): what is moodle
BableBlast (7:18:00 PM): link to ticky, RJ? I can't find it, and he's moved on
okamilink (7:18:15 PM): http://www.bunkmag.com/time/frametime4.html Just click the clock in the bottom right.
BableBlast (7:18:26 PM): gracias
BableBlast (7:20:28 PM): You: do i need help? ticky: Not that I know of. That is charitable. Ticky just talked his way out of a job.
okamilink (7:20:38 PM): haha
BableBlast (7:21:29 PM): honestly, though, i love chatbots when they can be properly played with
okamilink (7:21:34 PM): yeah, same
BableBlast (7:21:38 PM): doctor sbaitso was the best
okamilink (7:21:45 PM): ye can't get ye flask!
justinallynhall (7:21:49 PM): whew - that was some work: http://www.diigo.com/user/markcmarino/mechner/
Envarh (7:22:09 PM): for those who haven't
Envarh (7:22:10 PM): http://www.homestarrunner.com/dungeonman.html
justinallynhall (7:22:33 PM): who is this gentlemen?
BableBlast (7:23:05 PM): you're talking! you're talking right now! ask him!
justinallynhall (7:23:12 PM): hahaha
kinojabber (7:23:22 PM): jeremy douglass
BableBlast (7:23:26 PM): thanks
justinallynhall (7:23:42 PM): http://jeremydouglass.com/
bennywild (7:24:12 PM): http://aperturescience.com/
Hokyman164 (7:25:13 PM): a person who loves problems
BableBlast (7:25:32 PM): good point about language and these games. Douglas Adams, I believe, spent most of the last five years of his life on this.
Hokyman164 (7:25:43 PM): starship titanic?
Hokyman164 (7:25:59 PM): that was a game I remember he made
BableBlast (7:26:00 PM): yeah, looking for a good site about it
peggyweil (7:26:36 PM): Robert Pinsky wrote a text adventure?
BableBlast (7:26:38 PM): that was easy: http://www.starshiptitanic.com/
Hokyman164 (7:26:48 PM): so when does he get to the sierra 3d graphical adventure game?
Hokyman164 (7:26:59 PM): that was more my time. :P
justinallynhall (7:27:41 PM): infinite new buttons in a semiotic system
okamilink (7:27:48 PM): http://jerz.setonhill.edu/if/index.html --- seems a decent site on IF
BableBlast (7:28:14 PM): you need to be literate in the system to play... its true on a smaller scale with graphical games too
okamilink (7:28:21 PM): remember hammer?
Hokyman164 (7:28:52 PM): I liked how leisure suit larry 1 played with the text parser.
bennywild (7:28:57 PM): Adams authored a text adventure that sort of played off the frustrations of text adventures.
bennywild (7:28:59 PM): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy_%28computer_game%29
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Hokyman164 (7:29:05 PM): especially if you put in something expecting that it totally wouldn't understand what you're saying
BableBlast (7:31:39 PM): Here's Shade: http://www.eblong.com/zarf/if.html#shade
Envarh (7:33:48 PM): Typing of the Dead?
okamilink (7:33:52 PM): IF doesn't have double-jump
BableBlast (7:34:28 PM): There's no kinetic/response-time/panache element to interactive fiction
kinojabber (7:34:48 PM): I think it would be interesting if there were ...
kinojabber (7:34:59 PM): after all, there is in speaking
Hokyman164 (7:35:00 PM): I thought people bought halo games to 0wz0r b1tches
kinojabber (7:35:07 PM): and that is language
Hokyman164 (7:35:07 PM): bleh, 0wnz0r
BableBlast (7:35:23 PM): that's true... and its very possible
okamilink (7:35:38 PM): i'd love to see that on a box
peggyweil (7:36:19 PM): the way stories may or may not be "replayable"
BableBlast (7:36:25 PM): in fact, have any text-adventures short of Mavis Beacon Teaches Zombie-Hunting ever had a timeframe in which to respond before... something happens?
okamilink (7:36:42 PM): sometimes there's a command-timeframe
okamilink (7:37:00 PM): such as getting like 20 commands before the anvil crushes the dog, or something
BableBlast (7:37:01 PM): ok, that's something
peggyweil (7:37:23 PM): I can write a text adventure to run on a TI calculator
BableBlast (7:37:24 PM): but takes Dracula's Castle, the scariest text-based adventure ever made
justinallynhall (7:37:27 PM): Interactive Fiction - totally cross platform!!!!
kinojabber (7:37:59 PM): I was talking with Noah Falstein recently about porting old Infocom games + audio to mobile phones
BableBlast (7:37:59 PM): scarier if when there was a vampire in the room, he'd eat you if you didn't get out of there fast enough
Hokyman164 (7:38:02 PM): why is it "interactive fiction" is only allowed to mean "text adventure game"?
kinojabber (7:38:14 PM): Seemed like kind of a fun idea
justinallynhall (7:38:59 PM): the first adventure game was about a cavern crawl - we are still dealing with the effects
Envarh (7:39:01 PM): SPACE WAR!
justinallynhall (7:39:11 PM): light modeling feature built into every IF library
kinojabber (7:39:58 PM): Magic things glow ....
justinallynhall (7:40:16 PM): Peggy is playing Shade
BableBlast (7:40:28 PM): is she... winning?
justinallynhall (7:40:36 PM): can you see her glowing?
justinallynhall (7:42:03 PM): I built an IF game for 541a - it was (relatively) easy and fun
okamilink (7:42:15 PM): what did you use, Justin?
justinallynhall (7:42:27 PM): inform, the language
justinallynhall (7:42:56 PM): um - can't remember the compiler and system, but it was basically writing out in a text editor the objects, characters, and conditionals
okamilink (7:43:15 PM): cool. i've been wondering what a good builder for text adventures would be
BableBlast (7:43:51 PM): it's simple coding in any sorta low-level language... anything that can "print" to DOS or unix. That was maybe ALL I did in Pascal, for instance.
okamilink (7:44:02 PM): I tried to move in on one of the members of the couple in Facade
okamilink (7:44:08 PM): never could do it, they always kick you out eventually
kinojabber (7:44:16 PM): I got to play AR Facade last week
kinojabber (7:44:24 PM): I tried to hug Trip
kinojabber (7:44:29 PM): Grace yelled at me
okamilink (7:44:37 PM): I kissed both of them
okamilink (7:44:40 PM): it got confusing.
okamilink (7:45:00 PM): They always insist I leave. I told them I was drunk but I think they were mad.
kinojabber (7:45:29 PM): They have a recreation of the living room that you walk around in -- pick up the phone, wine glasses, etc.
BableBlast (7:45:44 PM): wow, that sounds like too intimate of a touch
okamilink (7:45:49 PM): Oh wow, that's pretty cool
BableBlast (7:45:54 PM): but it could be pretty entertaining
okamilink (7:47:25 PM): next command: Kill grandmother.
kinojabber (7:47:27 PM): yeah, it was surprisingly fun
kinojabber (7:47:38 PM): even wearing the geek pack
justinallynhall (7:47:55 PM): I just found my source code for my interactive fiction - 282 lines
justinallynhall (7:48:02 PM): for a 4 minute experience
justinallynhall (7:48:27 PM): Object ground "ground" TreeBase has scenery with name "ground" "soil" "earth", description "Like shale that has been walked on by a million mastodons.";
okamilink (7:48:46 PM): haha
okamilink (7:48:53 PM): a million? perceptive.
Envarh (7:48:57 PM): "> Rock Out"
dread33sf (7:49:09 PM): geek pack??
Hokyman164 (7:49:27 PM): my big problem with text adventures is trying to figure out the language
kinojabber (7:49:43 PM): yeah, you know -- the big backpack computer + cables and junk
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BableBlast (7:50:44 PM): so the real question... is semiotic guesswork a fun game mechanic? is it an interesting game mechanic?
Hokyman164 (7:50:52 PM): it can be.
Hokyman164 (7:51:07 PM): I mean, there's been times where I'm confused.
justinallynhall (7:51:08 PM): RJ: next command: "pick up glowing 50 point yellow armor ball"
Hokyman164 (7:51:16 PM): this is a good metaphor for that
BableBlast (7:51:16 PM): if you have your viable options laid out for you, is the game any worse? or is it better?
okamilink (7:51:18 PM): haha
Hokyman164 (7:51:36 PM): well, the game would suck if you knew immediately there's no phone, desk, etc etc
Hokyman164 (7:51:52 PM): hence why this could only work in the text adventure space
BableBlast (7:52:44 PM): i mean, if you had expandable/collapsable descriptions, and you has a list of places you could GO, things you could PICK UP, things you could USE, etc
BableBlast (7:52:57 PM): they already do that with USE, but not with anything else
BableBlast (7:53:18 PM): are we really congratulating ourselves for "going to the desk" when the text says "there is a desk"?
BableBlast (7:53:34 PM): is that why we keep up the semiotic guessing?
okamilink (7:53:37 PM): i just want to know why i can't kill myself
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Hokyman164 (7:53:41 PM): speaking of confusing, what's going on with shade? is it a thing where your action is to feel stuff?
okamilink (7:53:53 PM): it doesn't feel interactive when the game tells me what i want.
okamilink (7:54:08 PM): "you do not want the dark" -- who says?
Hokyman164 (7:54:12 PM): okamilink: I don't mind it if the game convinces me it's what I want :P
justinallynhall (7:54:46 PM): this woman is highly regarded in the world of Interactive Fiction: http://emshort.wordpress.com/how-to-play/
justinallynhall (7:54:51 PM): Emily Short
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Hokyman164 (7:55:15 PM): the big question I have about this is... why would someone want to torture themselves trying to get such a thing to work?
Envarh (7:55:23 PM): bingo
BableBlast (7:55:26 PM): same question here
Hokyman164 (7:55:27 PM): seriuosly, that's the big problem here
justinallynhall (7:55:29 PM): josh people cut themselves and bleed for fun
Hokyman164 (7:55:33 PM): hahahahahahaha
Hokyman164 (7:55:43 PM): well said :P
BableBlast (7:56:10 PM): i understand the idea that it's discovery, that you're in an empty space and you have to feel around to feel it out
BableBlast (7:58:10 PM): but there are many ways to explore an undefined space in a satisfying way
BableBlast (7:59:10 PM): wait... are we saying that console games have satisfying payoffs?
BableBlast (8:00:28 PM): I will admit, this sounds like it has more potential ending payoff than almost any game I've played
Hokyman164 (8:00:58 PM): it seems that there's a huge learning curve (in terms of playing previous text adventure games)
Hokyman164 (8:01:23 PM): I'll admit, I have had a hard time getting into those. But I'm spoiled by Sierra and LucasArts
Envarh (8:01:44 PM): one of the first lessons we've had to face in beginning film
Envarh (8:01:58 PM): is that when you are making a story about boredom, frustration, agony, etc
Envarh (8:02:12 PM): the point is to convey the emotion without subjecting the audience
Envarh (8:02:19 PM): to that emotion
BableBlast (8:02:35 PM): well said. not that films don't forget that quite often
BableBlast (8:02:42 PM): esp outside the mainstream
justinallynhall (8:03:05 PM): eliminate ambiguity by sharing verbs up front
kinojabber (8:03:15 PM): I got a glass of water
Hokyman164 (8:03:32 PM): lucasarts did this by throwing all the verbs at the bottom of the screen
kinojabber (8:03:39 PM): take glass, fill glass, drink
Hokyman164 (8:03:53 PM): sierra had the verbs in their instruction manuals
Envarh (8:04:10 PM): " 'ye can't get ye flask,' and you'd just have to sit there and figure out why"
okamilink (8:04:24 PM): why on earth can't ye get ye flask?
Hokyman164 (8:04:52 PM): it's funny, but we were never taught to ambiguate (is that a word?) verbs in ouir games
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Hokyman164 (8:05:55 PM): I wonder what it would be like to give the player the ability to discover a verb they never knew they had before, but always had it.... I suppose fighting games have done this in a very simplistic way.
BableBlast (8:06:27 PM): you mean with shoryukens?
Hokyman164 (8:06:35 PM): yeah, and flash kicks and the like
Hokyman164 (8:06:47 PM): to the beginner, sf2 had 6 moves
Hokyman164 (8:07:02 PM): but to the advanced player, each character has a bunch more
Envarh (8:07:16 PM): Question, Katamari shifts LOD, but does it shift level of granularity as well?
Hokyman164 (8:07:41 PM): Envarh: yes it does. but it also cancels out smaller objects to save resources
BableBlast (8:09:20 PM): i am actually starting to agree with the guy
BableBlast (8:09:45 PM): not that this is The Answer, to anything, really, but that the exploration is viable
BableBlast (8:09:54 PM): that it's worth doing at least once
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BableBlast (8:12:46 PM): it does something i still don't think games do very well... which is reveal something
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